I’ve been having a spirited debate in the comments of one of my recent posts, and decided to move the thoughts out to their own post. I’ve added a few links and elaborated on points that will help clarify some terms that some non-Mormons/Catholics may not understand.

The person who I have been debating with (Michael) said:

“And that [you have to be a Mormon to obtain the highest level of glory in Heaven] actually isn’t true. How do you account for all of the billions of people who existed prior to Joseph Smith if that be the case? I assure you it isn’t Mormon doctrine that they can’t obtain the highest kingdom.

In comparison to some rather shocking Protestant doctrine I have be exposed to, we might also note that in LDS post-mortal theology almost all attain a glorious kingdom.

How does post mortal theology read in Catholic doctrine? I was a student at a Catholic school when I was younger, and I don’t really remember anything specific being taught about it.”

This kind of took me on a tangent that didn’t quite answer his question, but helped clarify my own understanding of Mormon “salvation”. This very question, what happens to you when you die according to Mormon doctrine, is one of the major questions that made me delve deeper into Mormon theology and helped to lead me out of the church.

The Mormon teaching, from what I remember, is that all will be offered the opportunity to accept the doctrine of Christ (according to the Mormon church) before final judgement. And those who have accepted it, whether it be on Earth or in the afterlife, will have the opportunity to receive baptism, confirmation and their endowments (which can be done if they are found through geneology of the living and submitted to the temple for the living to do their work for them). Which will at least give them the keys to heaven – they still have to be judged before they are given these blessings by God.

This is what I had the problem with. Many, many people have been baptized in the Temple in what is called Baptism for the Dead. Which, in theory, means that all of their sins are forgiven. That’s the point of baptism, to have a clean slate. So in theory, I bust my backside, and do the best job I can as a Mormon on this earth, but what if I forget to repent for one sin? What if I drank one too many glasses of tea, or smoked one too many cigarettes? And my eternal companion and my whole family got to go to the Celestial Kingdom, and I missed out because I had an unrepentent Margarita on my birthday or wore a second set of earrings. Meanwhile, murderers are being baptized posthumously and starting out their spiritual lives after their mortal body has died, and they don’t have a chance to sin any more, and they get into heaven and I don’t. It was this concept that made me question the temple and the purpose of doing temple work for the dead.

What if we’re posthumously baptizing people that are bad sinners, and they’re getting a Get Out of Jail Free card because we baptize them? For example, there is proof that Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun were baptized in the London temple, received their endowments and were sealed in marriage for time and all eternity.

Or what about my brother? He committed suicide, but was baptized Mormon. But my parents had his endowments done for him after he had died. During Initiatory, one of the ceremonies done for the living in Mormon temples that is essentially a washing ceremony before the endowment ceremony, there is a blessing that is given that declares him basically “clean”. And he’s been endowed. How does that fit into God’s plan? How is that fair for those of us held accountable on earth?

I did some research and found this on Catholic.com, which does a good description of Baptisms for the Dead compared to Catholic doctrine:

One reason Mormons advance the practice of baptism for the dead is a sense of justice. Billions of people have died without ever hearing the gospel of Christ and without having the chance to be baptized into his Church. How could God consign such people to damnation without giving them the chance to be saved? Surely he would give them that chance. But if they never heard the gospel in this life, when else could they hear and respond to it except in the next life?

There are a number of problems with this line of reasoning. Scripture is very clear in stating that this life is the only chance we get. Once we die, our fate is sealed: “It is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Heb. 9:27). There are no “second chances” after death. Consequently, God judges individuals based on their actions in this life. Since he is a just judge, he does not hold people accountable for what they did not and could not have known. Thus, those who do not hear the gospel in this life will be judged based on the knowledge they did have in this life. God gives his light to all people (John 1:9), and the universe itself gives evidence of God (Ps. 19:1-4), evidence which is sufficient to establish basic moral accountability (Rom. 1:18-21). For those who are ignorant by no fault of their own, God will not hold their ignorance against them; but it is wrong to assume that people have no light from God unless they hear an oral proclamation of the gospel.

If they live up to the light that has been shown to them and would have embraced Christ and the gospel had they known about them, then they can be saved (Rom. 2:15-16). Neither is their lack of baptism an obstacle. Scripture reveals that sometimes the graces that normally come through baptism are given early, to those who have not yet been baptized (Acts 10:44-48). Such people have what the Church terms “baptism of desire” and are united to God through their desire to do what he wants of them.

In the case of those who have not yet heard the gospel or learned of God, but who nevertheless seek to follow the truth as they understand it, they have an implicit desire for God since they desire to follow the truth. They simply do not know that God is the truth. Consequently, they also can be saved through baptism of desire; therefore, a proxy baptism is superfluous, either before their death or after it. They are already united to God, even if they are not fully aware of it in this life (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church 847-848, 1257-1260).

Thus the Mormon argument from fairness is not persuasive. There are other ways for accounting for God’s justice and mercy in dealing with those who have not heard of God and the gospel. It is not necessary to postulate another preaching of the gospel and second chance of repentance in the afterlife, much less the necessity of proxy baptism for the dead, on that basis. God can simply let whomever he wants into heaven, whether they have water baptism or not. God is not bound by the sacraments he himself instituted (CCC 1257).

The practice of baptism of the dead, then, must stand or fall based on the direct evidence concerning it, and that is where the Mormon position runs into fatal problems.

In simple terms, from what I understand, when you are judged before God according to traditional Catholicism, he looks into your heart and makes judgement from your intents. I believe the term is “Baptism by intent”. If you are not Catholic, but you’ve lived the best life that you can, according to the things that you have been taught, you will be judged accordingly. At least that’s the moderate stance I’ve heard. I’ve also heard extremes of what happens as well. So I don’t know for certain.

It’s hard for me to put into words – I’ve heard it explained on Catholic Answers before how it works and it made sense at the time, but it’s complicated.

I didn’t really have much of an answer for Michael, honestly, because I’m not very good at Catholic apologetics. Do any of my readers have a good site to go to that explains the Baptism by Desire concept?