For those of you who don’t live in Utah or aren’t familiar with Mormon culture, you may not have ever seen the movies “God’s Army” or “Brigham City”. I’ve seen both, watched after I had already left the church. So my perspective was a little skewed. Anyway, so the reason these movies made such a stir in the Mormon culture is that “God’s Army”, a Mormon-created film, about Mormon missionaries, actually got some mainstream air play. Now, it didn’t make skads of money, but it did pretty decent. And Richard Dutcher became semi-famous in the Mormon subculture due to his For Mormons By Mormons filmmaking.

So you can imagine the shock that has gone through the Mormon (and anti-Mormon) blogosphere when Dutcher announced formally that he was leaving the church. In the Daily Herald, Dutcher had this to say:

I cannot tell you how much I have cared, and still care, about this movement. My love for the future of Mormon cinema has driven me to a passion that has expressed itself not only in my films, but (as you know) in bouts of public anger at filmmakers who, I believed, were killing a beautiful, unprecedented opportunity and a limitless potential. Miraculously, that opportunity and that potential still exist. It’s just a little harder to see right now.

If this sounds like a farewell address … well, it is.

Mormon doctrines are powerful and beautiful and have given great meaning to my life for more than 30 years. I’m sure they will always continue to inform not only my future work as a filmmaker, but also my private spiritual journey. But it does not appear that it will be my honor to make some of these films that the LDS community so desperately needs.

As many of you know, I am no longer a practicing member of the church. The private answers to the questions I have asked in my prayers, and in my films, have led me on an unexpected journey, a spiritual path which may ultimately prove incompatible with Mormon orthodoxy. This understanding has brought me some of the most profound surprises and also the deepest sadness of my life. It is very hard for me to say goodbye to something that I love.

Who knows? Maybe, like Oliver Cowdery (to whom I’ve always felt an uncommon kinship), my travels will someday lead back to Mormonism and to this effort. Such an end would be beautiful and, in a strange way, an answer to my prayers. But I don’t know. One fundamental thing I have learned over the past few years is a genuine humility regarding my spiritual beliefs.

I know that some of you will not understand my decisions. Please know that I will always be not only a great friend to the Mormon community, but also one of its strongest defenders

While the formal “coming-out” letter was moving and interesting, I found this second letter, written in the comments of the liberal faithful LDS blog By Common Consent, to be much more revealing and to really discuss the pain that comes with leaving the church:

It’s unpleasant to acknowledge, but the LDS community has a history of character assassination. It is an ugly truth, but it is the truth. I have often joked (darkly, and among friends only) that when wandering sheep stray from the fold, Mormons don’t go looking for them. What happens is: somebody climbs up on a really tall tower, takes out a high-powered rifle, gets the poor straying soul in the cross-hairs, and then blows his wandering brain out.

When individuals leave the fold, why do we find it necessary to blacken their names? This has been the case since the earliest days. Back then, a church member or leader could be in full fellowship one day and considered a wonderful, decent, loveable human being. The next day, if that individual chose to make an exit, he was the “blackest, basest of scoundrels,” an “adulterer” and a “counterfeiter,” etc.

Today, we’re a little less melodramatic. But still, when a scholar, artist, intellectual, or even a rank and file member of the Church decides to leave, his character is instantly under attack: “I think he’s gay” or “I bet she’s having an affair” or “I’ve heard he’s a drug addict,” etc.

Just for the record: I’m not having an affair. I’m not gay. I’m not a drug addict. I’ve never tried to illegally reproduce hundred dollar bills and I haven’t killed anyone. Sadly, I can’t even claim to have beaten anyone up, not since the 9th grade anyway. (Actually, now that I think of it, I didn’t win that particular fight. A neanderthalic 12th grader beat the snot out of me.)

However, I’m far from perfect: I do like to swear sometimes (seldom in anger, mostly for fun), and I’ve recently grown fond of really expensive dark Irish beer (enjoyed in moderation, of course). On occasion I’ve even been known to swear while drinking a beer. I’ve always been good at multi-tasking.

I tried smoking cigars, but didn’t care for them. Cigarettes I hate. Coffee’s not for me, but I have found some great dark teas that I really like. There’s one in particular, Lapsang Souchong, that I highly recommend.

Also, sometimes I daydream that Jennifer Aniston and Angelina Jolie are both madly in love with me and I have to become a polygamist so that I can keep them both and not lose Gwen (my equally gorgeous wife).

There you go. Not very juicy. Downright silly in fact. On to more serious matters.

Some have speculated that I may have been offended by a church leader or member. That’s not the case. Church leadership has never been anything but supportive, and I’ve never lost any sleep over disapproval from individual church members. I would never let a personal offense from a fellow traveler detour me from the path.

Also, so many people out there think that I have been angry at other LDS filmmakers for dumping poor quality movies into the marketplace and ruining the reputation of Mormon Cinema.

Okay…you got me. That one’s true. But it is not the reason for my departure.

To conclude, it’s not necessary for anyone to jump to any conclusions. Please refer back to my letter and re-read the last several paragraphs. I shared my reasons. If you want me to be more specific, I’m sorry. I will not do that.

Just like there’s a familiarity with much of Mormonism, there’s also a familiarity with much of what people who have left the church have to say. I find it very revealing that he felt the need to “confess his sins” of drinking coffee and the occasional beer in his second comment. It’s so odd that even though I’ve been out of the church for many years now, I still saw that and went, “He’s drinking BEER? Man, he MUST be out of the church now!”

It’s odd that even now I use a double standard of judging The Rest Of The World, and Mormons/Ex-Mormons. Even myself. When my husband and I went to a Unitarian Universalist church once, I was not bothered by the fact that I was in a church other than Mormonism, or the pace or content of the sermon. But it freaked me out that I was in a church that served COFFEE after church! Coffee! The whole church smelled like a freshly brewed cup o’ joe. And that just tripped me out.

I even do it with my own family. I’ve gotten where I can drink coffee in front of my mom, but I remember one of the last times we went out for my birthday with my Dad before he died, and we went to a cajun restaurant called Pappadeaux. I found it terribly odd for my husband to drink a beer in front of my mom, and for me to be drinking a Swamp Thing, and it was absolutely surreal to see my mother drink not one but TWO margaritas! Talk about living life on the wild side! And when my father took a sip of champagne at my wedding, my husband found that mighty peculiar.

And it’s funny that ex-mos always list their Word of Wisdom violations as their “sins”. Most Ex-mo’s that I’ve known and read about decide to go nuts and order a cup of coffee, or have a glass of wine with dinner. And cuss. They never do anything that would even need to be confessed as a Catholic. But just being able to go into a restaurant and order a Coke without guilt can be SO liberating to someone who has felt guilty about so many things throughout their life.

And I can’t imagine the pressure that Dutcher is under to leave the church. He’s based his whole livelihood on creating art for the Mormon community, and now he’s going to be shunned from it. All I had to do was move wards for the church to forget about me.

I got my veil today, and it’s SO nice! It stays on my head easily with no bobby pins! YAY! I hate those stupid bobby pins.

I checked my veil tracking, and it’s on a truck to be delivered today. So I should have my veil by the end of the day. Yay! I’ll have it for this weekend! :)

You may have noticed that some of my comments have disappeared. It’s my blog, and I will do what I want on it. I don’t feel that Mormon proselytizing on my blog is what I want to share with my readers. If I wanted to share the Mormon religion with readers, I would send them that direction. While I share Primary sources often, I always show both sides of the story, and I am very selective with what I share because I know how confusing that the Mormon logic can be.

But that’s not what has happened. A few Mormons on the Internet Tubes have taken it upon themselves to defend the Mormon church to the point of calling me a liar, saying that their church is the “true gospel of Christ” and spewing the Mormonspeak that makes my skin crawl to this day. There’s canned phrases and ways of speaking that are so distinctly Mormon, and I can read through the double-talk. But Catholics without this background knowledge may not be able to comprehend the style and may become confused by the lies, and I refuse to subject any of my readers to that.

There are plenty of places for people to learn what Mormons teach exclusively from the Mormon perspective. This is not that place.

This blog is my blog, and I write it to help Catholics understand more about the Mormon religion from an ex-Mormon Catholic perspective. I did not write this blog so that I could spend my time arguing points that will never be satisfied on either side with True Believing Mormons. I’m tired of it, and I’m not doing it anymore. This does not let me grow spiritually, and it only frustrates me and pulls me away from the Christ that I want to know more intimately with each passing day.

I am willing to have discussions about points on the blog about Mormonism, but let’s face it. This is MY blog. MY journey. I have a perspective that most True Believing Mormons are not going to like. Because I say that my belief is that Joseph Smith was a fraud, that the Book of Mormon was a creation of his mind and is not a history of any people, and that the Mormon church is not the way to God. My Catholic readers will understand this. My Mormon readers, not so much.

And no matter who the Mormon is, the argument always degenerates into one of three arguments:

1) You know in your heart it is true, but you’ve sinned and want to live a sinful lifestyle.
2) Someone hurt you, didn’t they? You know it’s true but you were hurt and are taking it out on the church. Why do you have so much bitterness?
3) Why do you attack us? Why do you hurt us?

To answer these questions:

1) I know in my heart that it is false, and I do my best to live as sin-free life. My confessor would attest to that except for that whole can’t-share-a-confession thing he’s got going on. I pray every day, I go to Mass every Sunday, and sometimes during the week. I do an examination of conscience almost every night, and do my best to focus on my weaknesses and eliminate them. Plus now I can drink Starbucks and Coke with a clear conscience! Even to this day, I feel a little guilty drinking a Coke. I think I always will. Thanks a lot, Word of Wisdom!

2) Yes, someone hurt me. A lot of people hurt me. And I allowed myself to be subjected to humiliation and degradation over and over and over because for a long time I believed in the Mormon church. I allowed myself to be treated in such a poor manner because I believed what I was told, that it was true. I did. I’ll admit it. And it hurt like hell when someone yanked the foundation for my entire life right out from under me. Once those blinders had been lifted, once I saw the truth, I could never go back to “faking the lies”, no matter how hard I tried.

When I left, no one called. No one came by. I didn’t see any “Visiting Teachers” or “Home Teachers”. My name’s on my Ward roster and has been since my brother died in 2002. Wanna know how many times I’ve had visitors from the church? Guess?

I remember so often being told, “If a soul is lost because you didn’t fellowship, because you didn’t do your Visiting Teaching, because you didn’t share the Gospel, it’s you YOUR conscience, and you will be held accountable!” Feelin’ guilty yet? If you don’t get through to me, it’s YOUR SOUL in danger! It’s YOUR responsibility! The horror! I know I always felt like crud when I didn’t do my Visiting Teaching. What if *that* was the soul that was my best friend in Heaven and I didn’t talk to them about the Gospel? (I watched too many Saturday’s Warriors/My Turn On Earth roadshows as a kid). And what if I didn’t reach out to that inactive? What if I promised to keep them faithful in heaven? And I failed. It was *my* fault.

Why am I bitter? Because I was lied to for years. I was lied to during my whole life. The church that you love so much gave the priesthood to a man who insisted that my father, dying of Stage Four Pancratic Cancer and bedridden in hospice at home, come to the stake center to get his Temple Recommend because the !$&*ing Bishop refused to come to our home. My dying father, wanting to die with the Temple Recommend so that he would be worthy to enter heaven, had to have my mother call the Stake President and SCREAM at him to get someone to come over to my father to have his interviews.

I was lied to. I was made to feel worthless as a 27 year old single woman because I was not married, because I was a “special spirit” and I was single for a LONG time because I refused to date outside of the church and I couldn’t find anyone to go out with me. I was Mormon for most of my late 20’s. Guess how many dates I went on? Go ahead. I’ve got a moment. That would be ZERO. Do you know how worthless, and how horrible that made me feel? That I wasn’t good enough for one single Mormon man in the entire DFW area?!

TWO MONTHS after leaving the church for good I found a wonderful caring man who didn’t give a FLIP what kind of underwear I wore. I guess I wasn’t *that* bad after all. Just the Mormon boys thought so.

My whole life I was never good enough, never pretty enough, never spiritual enough. No one mourned me leaving the church. After three months of essentially being homebound from agoraphobia, I reached out to my bishop, only to be belittled, mocked, criticized. This Man of God made me feel worthless and I vowed right then and there that it would be the last time I would allow a “priesthood” holder to make me feel bad.

I gave thousands of dollars worth of tithing to this church. My mother has tithed on her Gross Income her whole life and now she lives on Social Security, money she ALREADY tithed on, and she feels the need to give 10% of her teeny tiny income to this church that treated her husband like dirt when he needed them the most.

So yeah. I’m bitter. But did I leave the church because of that? No. I left because after all that abuse that I subjected myself to, and begging and pleading, I never received the answer that I begged for. In spite of all of this horrible treatment by multiple people in multiple wards, I was faithful for a very long time. Because I wanted it so bad to be true. And it wasn’t.

So am I bitter? Oh, a touch. But trust me. You haven’t seen bitter. You wanna see bitter, I got some sites I can send you to.

3) Why do I attack you? I don’t even know you! I don’t know you from Adam. (And, btw, for those of you who never make it through the temple, the Adam in their Creation video is HAWT! But not as hot as the Lucifer. Go figure.) But you take every criticism that I give over the hundreds of horrible experiences that I had as a youth, a teen and a young adult as a personal attack to your faith. It’s not.

I learned as a Mormon to journal. This is my journal, trying to help other Catholics with theirs. Or not. If I’m supposed to help a Catholic, or an ex-Mormon Catholic, God will send them to me and I will say the right things.

I bear this witness to you that I believe the Book of Mormon to not be the word of God, except those parts which were lifted straight out of the bible. I do not believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I believe Gordon B. Hinkley to be a kind man, but he leads a church based on the lies of a charlatan. I believe the Book of Abraham to be a fraud. I believe that while there are some “great” aspects of the church, such as their welfare program and their ability to weather storms as a coherent group, I do not believe that these positive aspects outweigh the fact that this church leads people away from the true Christ.

And that’s all I have to say about that.

I’ve been thinking of some of my experiences with other religions growing up, other than Catholicism, and a bunch of stories sprang into my mind at once. So I thought I’d share them.


When I was a child, my mother enrolled me in two Vacation Bible Schools. I went to the Lutheran one because I had a bunch of friends who went there. Yeah, that didn’t go so good. She also enrolled me in the Baptist Vacation Bible School one year. I can still see the church, it was right next to the KTXA radio station in San Antonio, on Eisenhower Road.

I remember really enjoying that church, everyone paid lots of attention to me and we did lots of crafts. At some point in the week, they started talking about baptism. They pulled us in a little room and told us about how great it was. There were only 5-6 of us in that room with two teachers, I think. I remember getting baptized in the LDS church and really liked it, so when they offered to baptize me again, I was like, ok! That sounds fun!

They had to get permission to get me baptized by my mom. Yeah, I didn’t get permission to get rebaptized. I think I might have gotten pulled from the rest of the school.


When I got to college at what was then East Texas State University, there were maybe 3-4 Mormons on campus. I was a good, upstanding, chaste young lady, and some of the debochery on campus was more than I could bear. I decided to hang out with the kids at the Baptist Student Union. They had free lunches there, and a cool lounge where I could hang out, and they didn’t drink or smoke or do naughty things.

I was very active in the union for the first couple of months I was at school. But I was also very Mormon, still attending the ward I went to as a teenager (it was a small college near where I graduated from high school). They decided to hold elections for offices for the union, and I volunteered to run. But they wouldn’t let me. They said, “We just *can’t* have a Mormon officer! You don’t believe in the same Christ we do!” And they just unloaded this spew of anti-Mormon bile, until I started crying and left the building. My testimony of the Mormon church was still very much intact, but my view of the Baptist Student Union was shattered forever. I only went back once, to tell the head lady that I had left the church (three years later, when I did). She said, “We’ve been praying for you!”


When I was in the Singles ward, there was a young lady who had converted from being a Baptist. She had been a member long enough to go through the temple and receive her Endowments. She was pretty much considered one of the “special spirits” in the ward. (In Mormonspeak, “Special Spirit” = “Good Personality”). Her family was all Baptist, and at some point, she decided to renounce her Mormon baptism and become Baptist again.

She showed up to a church dance, and tried to talk to those of us who used to be her friends. She was throwing her no-longer-Mormon right into our face. She kept talking about “going to Worship” and not wearing her garments anymore and how she was so happy that she left the church. We tried to talk to her and explain that no longer wearing the Garments was the most sinful thing a person could do just about, but once we realized that we were not going to get through to her, we all started to drift away until finally she was standing alone. All by herself. And then, with a sad face, she left.

She kept calling some people, inviting them to come to Worship with her, but we pretty much shook the dust off of our feet, as the Missionaries say, and blew her off. We figured she was probably mentally unstable anyway.

Today’s letter is from Kris:

Do you have any advice or comments on a Catholic 12 yr old girl growing up in a small Utah community surrounded by 90 % Mormons ?

My daughter is struggling with all the girls turning 12 and going into the beehives ( 12 & 13 yr old girl ) young woman’s, and to summer camp. She was asked to go however, she is not feeling comfortable talking and doing plays about the Mormon religion since she is not a Mormon. She is having a hard time since the girls do not want anything to do with her.

thoughts, suggestions, any insights ?

thank you

I’m sorry that your daughter is struggling. Mormon children in predominatly Mormon areas such as Utah (and even sometimes in big cities) are warned not to spend time with non-Mormons. I’m sure she could get all the attention in the world from the girls if she would just look like she was interested in the church. But I wouldn’t recommend that at all.

While she might find Mormon friends, more often than not she will either be drenched with attention as a potential member, or shunned as a Non-Mormon “Gentile”. I went to a few different wards as a youth – some I was accepted, others the “clique” mentality was rampant, and since I wasn’t part of that clique, I had no friends. Typical teenage type behavior, really.

Personally, I *hated* MIA camp and thank Goodness I was only subjected to two years of it.

I imagine you don’t have a huge parish in that part of the world, but I would recommend looking into maybe sending your daughter to a reputable Catholic camp for an overnight weekend trip, or even taking a Mother-Daughter journey weekend, possibly staying at a convent or a retreat center. I don’t know much about camp programs for children or for Catholics, unfortunately.

I hope this helps.

I find it exhausting debating Mormon apologetics. I’ve done enough research that I can refute any claim made by a Mormon to me. The work has been done – all I have to do is Google it and paste the refutes of the apologist’s argument, including multiple sources and links.

But I don’t like doing that. Spending my energy that way is tiring, and I know I’m never going to convince a True Blue Mormon that their religion is false, any more than they are going to convince me that Mormonism is true.

Thank goodness the arguments that all Mormons use are rather standard, because it makes it that much easier to refute them.

I’d much rather be talking about the glory that is Mass, or discuss my journey as a Catholic, than to be spending my valuable Blog space arguing with someone whom I’m never going to convince.

So, Peach, I’m calling a truce. If you want to discuss more, put it in this thread or the threads we’ve discussed, but if not, then let’s call it over and let me move on. I want all to revel in the glory of Christ and his blood, body soul and divinity in the Eucharist. But first I have to show you that Mormonism is wrong. Which I will do to the best of my ability. I have faith that God will grant grace to all who pray to receive it.

I don’t believe that God hates Mormons, but I do believe that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and that the Book of Mormon is not a work of God. Period. There’s a hundred different web sites with undisputable facts proving the falseness of its claims. I believe there are many better ways to come to Christ than the LDS church.

And the number one way for me to be close to Christ is to attend Mass. Being there, celebrating his sacrifice and death and resurrection, is the pinnacle and end-all be-all of worship to me. Everything else is gravy. I never found that focus on God and on Christ in the Mormon church. Ever. Not even in the Temple.

It’s the simplicity that I love. The simple act of worshiping God, and thanking him for all he does, and receiving his mercy and love. How I wish I had known that simplicity long ago! The spirit dwells in me now, and I can feel God’s love more purely and more intensely than any other point in my life.

The purpose of the Catholic Church is to unite people with their Lord and their God. I feel I am where I need to be.

During my research for the other “challenge”, I found another fantastic page. I am not going to include it in its entirety, but I’ll pick out some of the best examples and publish them here. Please click here to read the article in its entirety. It’s worth the time to read it, that’s for sure.

EDIT: And here’s another refute to the points made in Nibley’s challenge:
Book of Mormon Challenge


CHALLENGING THE BOOK OF MORMON
by Stephen F. Cannon

Most recently, while perusing the Mormon websites on the Internet, I came across a challenge issued to prove that the Book of Mormon is both scripture and history. This writer had heard many of the arguments before, but this was the first time they had been found all in one place and issued as a challenge. As I read through the statements, I decided to answer them as a body, as they were presented. My prayer is that these answers will find their way to the maximum number of people so when Mormon missionaries come calling with a smile and a free copy of the Book of Mormon, truth will prevail.

Many of these statements are very misleading. Taken the way they are phrased, without clarification, grants some LDS presuppositions. When discussing doctrinal or historical points with Mormons, one must be careful to define terms. Mormons use the same terms as orthodox Christians, but define them differently.

Those who dialogue regularly with Mormons often express how frustrating it is to communicate with them meaningfully. Taking the following challenge will demonstrate that such communication can be very time-consuming and detailed. Don’t be discouraged! If you love Mormons enough to share the true Gospel with them, be ready to spend quality time preparing and communicating that truth.

With that in mind, let’s get on with…

Here is the challenge: Can you accept it?

You Bet!

6. Other than a few grammatical corrections, you must have no changes in the text. The first edition as you dictate it to your secretary must stand forever.

Again, there is a major difficulty with this condition. Neither sentence of this condition is accurate. There have been many more than “a few” grammatical corrections. It takes only a few minutes of comparing the latest edition of the BOM with the first edition to see that there have been thousands of spelling and grammatical changes, as well as some significant historical and doctrinal changes.

As I write, I have before me a reprint of the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon with all but the most recent changes marked. This volume is available to any one who wishes to compare the modern editions of the BOM with the original.11

Space prohibits a detailed examination of the many changes, but I think it important to include a few of the more serious doctrinal and historical changes. I do so without comment to show that the above condition is totally in error. (Words in bold type are the added words.)

    1 Nephi 11:18 — “Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh” (1830 ed., pg. 25).

    1 Nephi 11:18 — “Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh” (1989 ed.).

This mistake was made and rectified in two other places:

    1 Nephi 11:21 — “And the angel said to me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father!” (1830 ed., pg. 25).

    1 Nephi 11:21 — “And the angel said to me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!” (1989 ed.).

    1 Nephi 13:40 — “These last records … shall make known to all kindreds, tongues and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior” (1830 ed., pg. 32).

    1 Nephi 13:40 — “These last records … shall make known to all kindreds, tongues and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of Eternal Father, and the Savior” (1989 ed.).

And in Mosiah 21:28 (1830 ed. pg. 200), we read about king Benjamin having a gift from God, but since BOM chronology actually has Benjamin dead at that time, it was later changed to king Mosiah having a gift from God.

Again, the changes are too numerous to list here. The facts demonstrate that this condition is not accurate.

9. Change your style of writing many times. Many ancient authors contributed to the Book of Mormon, each with his own style.

You can file this one under the “opinion of the writer.” I have read the BOM 1957 edition cover to cover once and the 1830 edition cover to cover once, as well as studied various parts of the book on many occasions and the writing style (except those portions that were copied from the King James Version of the Bible) is clearly that of one person. This is especially easy to see in the 1830 edition. Moreover, the present theory in LDS circles on how the BOM was translated is that God revealed to Joseph the concepts of the BOM and he then wrote them in his own words. This, they say, is why the first edition was such a mess of bad spelling and bad grammar.

19. The book must not contain any absurd, impossible, or contradictory statements. Your history must not contain any statement that will contradict any other statement elsewhere in the volume.

Oh, brother! Here is where the challenge really begins to unravel. A volume unto itself could (and has many times over) be produced to answer this point of challenge. First the absurd: The next to last book in the BOM (the book of Ether) purports to be an account of a migration of people from the Middle East at the time of the confounding of languages at the Tower of Babel. A godly man by the name of Jared and his even godlier brother (and his friends and family) are told by the Lord to migrate to a land across the sea.

The first absurdity we are treated to is the lack of identity of Jared’s brother. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie said:

    “Some of the greatest heavenly manifestations ever vouchsafed to man were given to the Brother of Jared.” [Mormon Doctrine, op. cit., pg. 391.]

And yet, we are never given this holy man’s name. He is always addressed as the “brother of Jared.” In fact, in the first six chapters of the Book of Ether he is addressed as “brother of Jared” 46 times, “Jared with his brother” one time, “Jared, his brother” one time, “Jared and his brother” six times, “Jared said unto his brother” three times, and “Jared died, and his brother also” one time. How much easier to just give us the brother’s name.

Next we are treated to a description of the Lord’s revelation for building “barges” to get Jared and his associates across the ocean. I offer the below description without comment. It is up to the reader to judge the absurdity of the narrative.

    Ether 2:16-21 — “And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of barges which ye have hitherto built. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the instructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water. And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly tight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, I have performed the work which thou hast commanded me, and I have made the barges according as thou hast directed me. And behold, O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer? And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did so, according as the Lord had commanded.”

Next, I offer a couple of examples of the impossible. Close to the end of the book of Ether, we find ourselves in the New World.

Again we find ourselves in what is to become upper New York State, near a hill that will one day be named Cumorah and once again we are witnesses to an epic battle. The descendants of Jared (led by King Coriantumr) are about to be annihilated by the armies of an evil king named Shiz. Coriantumr is wounded and carried away to recuperate. Here we pick up the story:

    Ether 15:1-2 — “And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the words which Ether had spoken unto him. He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly two millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.”

Even if only half of the two million mighty men had only one wife and one child, that would put the casualty list at four million, and that doesn’t account for fatalities in Shiz’s army! This number matches about one half of all the military deaths of World War I. [Multimedia Encyclopedia, op. cit., table entitled: “Cost of World War One.”]

And all without benefit of modern weapons or a war of many years duration!

The last impossibility is the demise of Shiz himself.

    Ether 15:29-31 — “Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had all fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood. And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz. And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.”

As I try to construct a mind picture of this tableau, I wonder which part of Shiz was struggling for breath, the headless torso or the severed head? Also, the idea that a headless body would raise itself up on its hands is quite ludicrous.

29. You must gain no wealth from your work, but many times lose all that you have. Like those that believe you, you must submit yourself to the most vile persecution. And finally after 20 years of this, give your own life in a very savage and brutal manner, for your testimony concerning your history book. This must be done willingly on your part.

Unfortunately, there is a little bit of revisionist history here. While Joseph was unjustly and brutally murdered, he did not die for his testimony to the authenticity of the BOM, and he did not go as willingly as our challenger would have you believe.

Early 1844 finds Joseph and his faithful followers living in the thriving Mississippi River town of Nauvoo, Ill., a town the Mormons had built out of a swamp.

Joseph had been secretly teaching the doctrine of plural wives for many years. Publicly he was denying it. William Law, a Mormon dissident, announced his intention to start a newspaper (The Nauvoo Expositor) and use that as a vehicle to expose Joseph. On June 7, 1844, the first and only edition of the Expositor was published. In it were references to the polygamy revelation and Joseph’s recent ordination as King of Israel on Earth. Under the prompting of Mayor Joseph Smith, the Expositor was declared a public nuisance by the city council and destroyed.

Because of the destruction of the newspaper, an arrest warrant for inciting a riot was issued for Joseph and his brother Hyrum. Because of the recent activity surrounding Joseph’s ordination as King, the charge of treason was added. Fearing for their lives, Joseph, Hyrum and two others fled Nauvoo under cover of darkness on June 22nd.

Most of the faithful felt abandoned by their leaders, and even members of the inner circle of the church openly charged the Smiths with cowardice and abandoning the flock. On June 24th, a dejected Joseph surrendered to the civil authorities. He, Hyrum and two devoted followers were incarcerated in the nearby Carthage, Ill., jail. Joseph announced that this surrender will mean his death. D. Michael Quinn wrote:

    “27 June, 5PM. A large group of men approaches Carthage Jail disguised with blackened faces. Smith at first assumes it is the Nauvoo Legion he has secretly ordered to rescue him. However, Major-General Jonathan Dunham has disobeyed orders knowing that a prison escape would mean the annihilation of Nauvoo. Instead the vigilantes storm the upstairs room, instantly killing Hyrum and severely wounding Taylor. Joseph defends himself with a pistol, jumps out the window, and begins to shout the Masonic cry of distress: ‘Oh, Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow’s son?’ Masons in the crowd show no mercy and prop the semi-conscious Smith against a nearby well and shoot him several times at point blank range.”[Mormon Hierarchy, op. cit., pg. 646.
    ]

So, while Joseph was murdered, he did not go “willingly.” He used every means at his disposal to stave off his untimely demise, as any sane individual would. I do not fault Smith for defending himself, I would do the same, but the idea that Joseph went “as a lamb to the slaughter,” is not true history.

Here is the final collection of refutes of this popular challenge by Hugh Nibley, from this site, with commentary and additional reference links added.


21. Your record is to fulfil many Bible prophecies, even in the exact manner in which it shall come forth, to whom delivered, its purposes, and its accomplishments.

Since Biblical prophecy is an inexact science, to put it mildly, it is a fairly simple matter to find a Bible verse that can be re-interpreted to fit your own conclusions. The Muslims have found Bible prophecies of Mohammed; the Baha’is have found Bible prophecies of Baha’u'llah. The list is endless.

22. Call down an angel from heaven in the middle of the day and have him bear testimony to four honest, dignified citizens of your community that the record is the word of God. These witnesses must bear the angel’s testimony to the world, not for profit or gain, but under great sacrifice and severe persecution, even to their death beds. You must put that testimony to the test by becoming an enemy to these men.

Firstly, what we have here is secondhand information, at best. We have no way of knowing whether these men actually saw the angel, or if they were simply mistaken, or if they were dishonest.

Secondly, the Book of Mormon is by no means the only book to contain such a testimony. A former follower of Smith, James Strang, founded his own breakaway sect of Mormonism after the death of Joseph, and produced his own ‘translation’ of the brass plates of Laban, known as The Book of the Law of the Lord. This book includes a testimony of seven witnesses, to the effect that they saw and handled the plates from which the book was translated. Following the logic of the LDS church regarding the power of such a testimony, they should have canonized The Book of the Law of the Lord a long time ago.

23. Thousands of great men, intellectual giants, national and international personalities, and scholars for 125 years must accept your history and its teachings even to the point of laying down their life rather than deny their testimony of it.

Again, this is true of a great many sects and faiths. The followers of Baha’u'llah, known as the Baha’is, were mercilessly persecuted by the Muslim majority in Persia about the turn of the century. The sect still thrives today, with several million members worldwide, and despite the fact that persecution still continues in Muslim countries such as Iran.

24. You must include within the record this promise: "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, He will manifest the truth of it unto you by the power of the Holy Ghost."

How difficult is it to include such a promise in a text?

25. Missionaries must bear record to the world for the next 125 years that they know the record to be true because they put the promise to the test and found it to be true. The truth of it was manifested to them by the power of the Holy Ghost.

26. Over 50,000 plus competent salesman must be so sold on your book that they gladly give up two or more years of their lives to take it to all parts of the world for distribution. They not only pay their own way during these years, but return bearing testimony that the time spent will remain as one of the highlights of their lives. They receive nothing in return for their efforts but the joy of having shared your book with others.

27. Your book must not only raise the standards of millions of people but do it in such a way that they become one of the great moral, ethical, and dynamic marvels of the day. They must become world renowned for this.

Once more, the missionary effort of the LDS church is by no means unique. Believers of all stripes and shapes feel compelled to share their faith, often at great personal cost. One is often reminded of the poor Jehovah’s Witnesses, who faithfully pound the sidewalks every day, often greeted with nothing more than a slammed door or a harsh word.

As for the Book of Mormon raising the moral standard of its followers, this too is not unique to Mormonism. The whole point of religion is to exhort mankind to live a better life.

28. For the next 20 years you must watch those that follow and you, your family, and the dearest of your loved ones
persecuted, driven time after time from their homes, beaten, tortured, starved, frozen and killed. Tens of thousands must undergo the most extreme hardships in your presence just because they believe you claims concerning the origin and content of what you have written on ancient Tibet.

This is a repetition of point 23.

29. You must gain no wealth from your work, but many time lose all that you have. Like those that believe you, you must submit yourself to the most vile persecution. And finally after 20 years of this, give your own life in a very savage and brutal manner, for your testimony concerning your history book. This must be done willingly on your part.

There are other rewards beside monetary. Joseph Smith may have suffered financially, but he posessed that which all people crave – power, and the blind respect and admiration of his followers. Many would gladly suffer personal hardship in order to gain such a following.

30. Start right now and produce this record which covers 2600 years of history, doing it, not in the peaceful
atmosphere of your community, but under the most trying of circumstances which include being driven from your home several
times, and receiving constant threats upon your life. Please have your book completed, talk a friend into mortgaging his farm to
raise money to have it printed – all in 60 days.

The claim that the Book of Mormon was completed in sixty days is not the whole story. The actual dictation lasted from April 7, 1829 to early in July – some eighty days, give or take. However, this does not mean that Smith only had those eighty days in which to think about the narrative. He had actually begun the task more than a year earlier, first with Emma Smith, and then with Martin Harris as scribe. The result was 116 pages of the Book of Mormon, all of which were subsequently lost when Martin Harris was allowed to take the pages home to show his disbelieving family. The point is that there was nothing to stop Smith from at least thinking about the Book of Mormon story in that inbetween year. He may even have made some notes.

Conclusion

As we have seen, a number of these points are completely irrelevant to the historicity of the Book of Mormon, others are easily duplicated by other works of fiction, and still other points do not apply to the Book of Mormon, such as archeological accuracy. We therefore find no compelling reason to suspect that the Book of Mormon had a supernatural origin: instead we find that it fits very well with the more mundane theory – that the Book originated solely in the mind of Joseph Smith.

Here’s the next segment of The Book of Mormon Challenge (originally found here). I’ve added a few links for further research and clarification, as some of his points of logic show no backing evidence. And I do my best to furnish evidence when possible.


11. You must claim that your smooth narrative is not fiction with moral value, but true and sacred history.

The claims of the author are entirely beside the point. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was dictated to him by the angel Gabriel. Are we to believe him without proof as well?

12. You must include in you book fifty-four chapters dealing with wars, twenty-one historical chapters, fifty-five chapters on visions and prophecies. Remember, when you begin to write visions and prophecies, you must have your record agree meticulously with the Bible. You must write seventy-one chapters on doctrine and exhortation, and you must check every statement with the scriptures or your will be proven a fraud. You must write twenty-one chapters on the ministry of Christ, and every thing you claim he said and every testimony you write in your book about Him must agree absolutely with the New Testament.

This is actually extremely easy to do, if one is brought up in a Christian household, and quotes voluminously from the Bible as well. Indeed, it must be said that it would be difficult to fail on this point, given the circumstances surrounding the origin of the Book of Mormon.

[NOTE: Here is a page showing problems between the Bible and the Book of Mormon:

Contradictions Between the Book of Mormon and the Bible
Bible and Book of Mormon contradictions
The Book of Mormon contradicts Itself AND the bible!
]

There is a further underlying problem here, however. The Book of Mormon, it is true, does agree in meticulous detail with one particular sect of Christianity (Protestantism), but completely fails to agree with Old Testament Judaism.

13. Many of the facts, claims, ideas, and statements given as absolute truth in your writing must be entirely inconsistent with the prevailing beliefs of the world. Some of these worldly beliefs must be the direct opposite of your claims.

It is extremely difficult to see the relevance of this point. Are we to conclude that L. Ron Hubbard was a visionary because his ideas on psychology completely contradict any scientific model of the human mind? It is very easy to dream up wild and unsubstantiated theories: it is far harder to arrive at the truth.

14. Included in your narrations will be authentic modes of travel; whether or not those ancient people used fire; description of their clothing, crops, mourning customs, and types of government. You must invent about 280 new names that will stand up under scrutiny through the years as to their proper application and derivation.

The Book of Mormon completely fails on this point. We know of no ancient American culture that made use of horses, cattle, goats, elephants, chariots, silk, linen, wheat etc.

In addition, the Book of Mormon names seem to have a far more mundane origin than is here suggested.

15. You will have to properly use figures of speech, similes, metaphors, narrations, exposition, descriptions, oratory, epic lyric, and parables.

Again, this is irrelevant. Many works of fiction display these exact qualities, many times with far greater literary power than the Book of Mormon.

16. You must invite the ablest scholars and experts to examine the text with care, and you must strive diligently to see that your book gets into the hands of those eager to prove it a forgery, and who are most competent to expose every flaw in it.

This has been done time and again with the Book of Mormon, and time and again it has been denounced as a fraud.

17. Thorough investigation, scientific and historical evidence, and archeological discovery for the next 125 years must verify its claims and prove detail after detail to be true, for many of the details you put in your history are still buried beneath the soil of Tibet.

As already noted, the Book of Mormon has failed every archeological test applied to it. This author is aware of no non-Mormon archeologist who would regard the Book of Mormon as a reliable guide to thepre-history of America.

[Note: for MUCH more evidence about the falseness of the "historical" aspect of the Book of Mormon, here are some references:

Questions on the Book of Mormon, its Author and his Work
DNA research and Mormon scholars changing basic beliefs
Answering the Book of Mormon DNA apologetics
A desert traveler's journey through the Arabian desert?

And even Mormon scholars admit to problems, in this case the term "horses":
Horses in the Book of Mormon
]

18. You must publish it to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people declaring it to be the word of God and another witness for the Lord Jesus Christ.

Once again, the claims of the author are entirely beside the point. What matters is whether these claims can be substantiated.

19. The book must not contain any absurd, impossible, or contradictory statements. Your history must not contain any statement that will contradict any other statement elsewhere in the volume.

Ether 15:31 describes how the unfortunate Shiz, after having his head severed by a sword-stroke, struggled for breath and eventually died. In the 1830 version of the Book of Mormon, Mosiah 21:28, King Benjamin is said to be able to interpret engravings. Unfortunately, he was dead by this time. II Nephi 19:1 puts the Red Sea beyond the Jordan, in Galilee. In fact, it is well over 250 miles to the south of Galilee, in Egypt.

[Note: Here is another site that poses many unanswerable questions dealing with contradictory stories in the Book of Mormon:

More Questions on the Book of Mormon and the LDS faith?]

20. Many theories and ideas as to its origin must arise, and after discovering and examining the facts, they must fail. You have claimed that your knowledge had come from divine origin, and this claim continues to stand as the only possible explanation. The strength of this explanation must not decrease as time passes, but actually increases to the point where it becomes the only logical explanation.

As already noted, the only people who still believe that the Book of Mormon had a divine origin are ardent Mormon believers. The rest of the world, after "examining the facts" have arrived at a far more prosaic and simple explanation of its origin.

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